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X-Men observation

From comparison to the folks around her in X1, I estimate Sumela Kay to have been about 5'4" at the time. According to IMDb, Katie Stuart is 5'3" and Ellen Page is 5' even.

So apparently Kitty is shrinking. Maybe she's leaving too many molecules behind when she phases. ;-D

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( 25 comments — Leave a comment )
hildy
Jun. 1st, 2006 10:24 am (UTC)
And the Wiki entry on Kitty shows her admittedly older version at 5'6", so ironically the first one would be the closest in height.
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 11:05 am (UTC)
Yeah, they had her sprout a bit between 14 and 16 (which also took a couple decades in real time). The first edition of the Marvel Universe, around 1983 or 84 (when she was still 14), had her at 5'2".
tylure
Jun. 1st, 2006 11:16 am (UTC)
Ahh, yes...back when I first started reading X-Men. My sister had that edition of Marvel Universe. I think she still may, somewhere...
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 11:20 am (UTC)
I think that's one of the things we have duplicated. I know brainiacfive has at least partial runs of more than one edition...
brainiacfive
Jun. 1st, 2006 11:22 am (UTC)
They've actually put those Marvel Universe issues out in the big black and white reprint format, like the older comics. Though without the color, it seems to lack appeal.
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 11:43 am (UTC)
Oh, and...
so ironically the first one would be the closest in height.

Between Janssen and Jackman, it's pretty clear that's not much of a consideration. ;-D
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 12:12 pm (UTC)
ahhhh... the DADA-post of the X-Men movieverse. I wonder if they'll actually keep the same actor for two movies when they do the next sequel?

I never really understood the need to keep switching. I mean I haven't had anything against any of the kittys, but they haven't been doing that to any of the other minor roles.

Maybe they kept meaning to give her a bigger part and didn't do it until now (which, by the way, came just a little out of the blue, but I'll live).

I do hope they get Brian Singer back. X3 would have been drastically improved by his input.
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 12:27 pm (UTC)
I never really understood the need to keep switching.

I understood the first time, simply because they moved production from Toronto to Vancouver. The logistics of bringing in an underage TO actress would have been more trouble than they were worth.

But I don't understand at all why they didn't bring Katie back. She certainly still looks like a teenager, and is still based in Vancouver. Judging by her LJ posts, nobody even bothered giving her a reason; all she knew were the same rumors as the rest of us out here on the street.

Maybe they kept meaning to give her a bigger part and didn't do it until now (which, by the way, came just a little out of the blue, but I'll live).

Look at it this way: if they had her slipping into to secured government facilities to steal documents to confront the President with at the end of X2, she must have been considered about ready to "graduate" to the full-fledged team. So it makes sense that she -- along with Colossus, who really didn't need Wolvie to put him in charge of the kids' escape from the mansion during the raid -- would be part of it when this movie picked up.

I'm of two minds about the Singer issue. It certainly would have been a different movie, but I'm not entirely convinced it would have been all that much better.
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 01:23 pm (UTC)
I think Singer handled characterization much better, specifically in regards to Magneto. "What Have I Done?" BS he'd ever say that. And while the "pawns go first" business was pithy, I honestly don't see him being that cavalier. He'd believe that you can't make an omlette without cracking some eggs and all that, but he'd have a lot more respect for their sacrifice. They are mutants, after all.

He also completely obliterated one of the underlying themes of x-men: the connection to civil rights movements ("Have you tried... *not* being a mutant?"). It was totally junked in this one in favor of antiterrorism (The whole "your cities will not be safe" speach was taken directly from one of Bin Laden's videos, as if setting it in a cave weren't blatant enough), which just totally doesn't fit for X-men. Even for Magneto... it's just off.

I also didn't like the way he handled Dark Pheonix. The whole point of Singer's Pheonix was that it's a metaphor for the natural cycle of her powers. At the end of XII, when the student asks Xavier "Is everything alright, professor?" He answers "Yes, I think it will be." Why would he say that if it was some melevolent entity and not Jean he was sensing? Why would he say that "As a girl, Jean was always hesitant about her powers... always looking to others?" Even if he didn't want to tell them about the whole pheonix-thing, that would have been a perfect time to drop in some decent forshadowing by saying something about how as a girl, Jean had so much power that it scared her, and now she'd finally chosen to use it. He didn't say that because that's not where Singer was going with Pheonix.

I could have handled them doing Dark Pheonix if there had been some sort of impetus for it on Jean's part other than "I woke up and now I'm evil." Heck, they needed to get rid of Scott anyway-- why not have someone else do it? That would have pissed her off...

Basically my beef with it is that the movieverse has been substantially different in tone than the comic books since the beginning. Rather than honoring that change in tone, he tried to make them more like the comic books. Now I like the comic books just fine, but the comic books and the movies don't mix well precisely because of their different tone. He tried to turn the apple into an orange and it just didn't taste right.

Magneto's purple suit was pretty fantastic, though. I have to give them that.

...this comment became very very long.
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 02:12 pm (UTC)
Nothing wrong with long comments. :-)

I disagree with about 80% of this but you could tell that from my spoiler post. *shrug* Just sorry it didn't work for you.
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 02:57 pm (UTC)
meh, I'll get over it. Mostly I just thought the 'alternate personality' business was a bit of a cop-out. I wanted to see her go dark for a legitimate reason.

But that purple suit really did make up for a lot. I mean, poor Sir Ian getting caked in all that makeup, but he looked fabulous.

I can't decide if I liked the corset thing on Jean or not, but I liked what they did with the x-men uniforms (yay for tasteful application of color). And Iceman doing the ice-armor thing was just boss. I kinda wish mystique had had a bigger role. I wanted to see that middlefinger business again-- it never gets less funny.

Quill was $%^&in' creepy.

and ah... Beast... can I say enough nice things about Beast? He's always been one of my favorites, and KG pulled it off *beautifully.* I would have cried if they'd cut the reciting poetry during combat bit.

Also, I'm a big Storm/Wolverine shippernerd (especially in the movieverse-- ever since the "Do you hate normal people" bit in X1), so in that regard there was squeeage. They hugged! A-a-and the way she said "you love her!" ZOMG theirlovesoangsty. I'm also a big storm/beast shippernerd, so their little reunion also made me happy, because it totally didn't rule out them having been a thing back in the day.

But damnit, they killed my boyscout! *pout.* My ruling is since we didn't see a body, he's not really dead. This is X-men, after all-- they've cremated people and had them come back to life before, so if there's no body, he's *definetely* not dead. I've always preferred the "Cyclops throwing himself into his work" reaction to Jean's death myself... they made him look like kind of a wuss here-- he was going insane and all, but I might have felt better about the way they played him if he'd shaved. Don't ask me why, it makes no logical sense at all.
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 03:24 pm (UTC)
Mostly I just thought the 'alternate personality' business was a bit of a cop-out. I wanted to see her go dark for a legitimate reason.

With you on number one, albeit I think for slightly different reasons -- I'm not sure how much sense I actually made in my Big Rambly Post, but it was an attempt. On two, tho, I didn't have a problem with it. I think it was lyssie who summed it up as "infinite power, finite control." I don't see that she's ever evil per se, just out of control.

The movieverse take that the unmanageable power level is innate (and even that the Prof's interference may very well ultimately be responsible for both her never having the chance to learn to manage it and the fracturing of her psyche, as much as I hated the actual expository dialogue), I actually find very poignant and pointy. In general, I think it's exactly the culmination of one of the more problematic of the mutant issues that the movies have been dealing with all along. Magneto asserts that "nature intended" Jean to be the way she is, but at least as things stand -- not just with society, but with her own mind -- she can't live that way. I'm not fond of the "What have I done?" line either, but it's the best shorthand for communicating that he's recognized his mistake in failing to recognize that.

I can't decide if I liked the corset thing on Jean or not

I don't know if it makes sense, but she sure looked good. I've been drooling over it since the promo pics first came out.

and ah... Beast... can I say enough nice things about Beast?

I don't think that's actually humanly possible. He rocked.

Also, I'm a big Storm/Wolverine shippernerd (especially in the movieverse-- ever since the "Do you hate normal people" bit in X1), so in that regard there was squeeage.

O_o This is a direction I must confess my brain has never gone in, in any 'verse. Does not compute. But I'm always in favor of huggage, especially when the participants have been sniping at each other for the whole first part of the movie. (What did crawl up Ororo's behind between 1 and 2? She went from being the only one to show real compassion for Sen. Kelly to having almost as short a fuse as Logan.)

My ruling is since we didn't see a body, he's not really dead. This is X-men, after all

Oh, good heavens, yes. I'm absolutely amazed with myself for actually believing at this point that Scott and Jean are both definitely dead. I think it's the inherent differentness of the movieverse that permits it -- it feels to me like it would be a huge cheat to bring either of them back, whereas in the comics I've considered it a given and a matter of course since I was about 14. Certainly since they pulled the whole Phoenix-was-Jean-but-Jean-was-never-Phoenix retcon with the inauguration of X-Factor, thus forever crippling the emotional power of the original DP saga. :-/
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 03:44 pm (UTC)
The old tv show did the W/S for their screwed up timeline deal, and it's shown up in Ultimate. I just thought that X1!Storm and Wolverine made a good match.

I think part of my attraction to it is an "Enough with the love triangle already!" attitude. It's a good storyline for a little while, but this isn't the WB here. I liked the whole "maybe it's time we move on" thing.

Sentinel in the Danger Room? $%^&ing priceless. And that Cigar joke was great.

I'm just glad Emma Frost didn't make an appearance. I've always found her patently annoying, and every time I hear her mutant name, I think "Always winter and never christmas!"
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 04:06 pm (UTC)
The old tv show did the W/S for their screwed up timeline deal, and it's shown up in Ultimate.

I'd forgotten about that! And have never read any of the Ultimates stuff.

I don't have anything particularly against the match in the movieverse. It's just not a direction I'd ever particularly thought.

I liked the whole "maybe it's time we move on" thing.

Indeed.

I've always found her patently annoying, and every time I hear her mutant name, I think "Always winter and never christmas!"

*snerk* Thankfully, I think they probably decided (quite rightly) that they have enough telepaths as it is.

Emma gets on my nerves, but she can be amusing. They probably decided -- quite rightly -- that they have enough telepaths already. Although having her in the movies might have exorcised the mental image of an unfortunately-wigged-and-clothed Finola Hughes from that dreadful GenX TV-movie...
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 05:16 pm (UTC)
She can be kinda amusing, but I've just got it in for her. It's not so much a logical thing as just a visceral "Go away you stupid Mary Sue" hate.

And now Joss Whedon has her sleeping with my boyscout... it's very upsetting (She's seriously the only reason I don't follow Astonishing... I really can't stand her. I wish I could explain it). I guess I'm just very defensive of the Scott. He gets so much hate from the fanboys, but really-- someone's gotta be the responsible one.
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 05:17 pm (UTC)
...and it's totally spelled with one t, isn't it? because at last check, he was from Alaska. I lose.
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 06:08 pm (UTC)
???? He's always been Scott with two Ts as far as I know. Not sure where Alaska would factor into that, but I don't know if anyone in his family is really from there anyway. His grandparents run a small airline there, but I don't know if it's ever been said whether they've always lived there. In any event, as AF brats, I just assumed "home" for him and Alex before the crash was whatever base they lived on at a given time.

All of the above, of course, assumes they haven't completely gutted his history, which is always possible, Marvel being Marvel. But I doubt they would have changed the spelling.
leeflower
Jun. 1st, 2006 10:57 pm (UTC)
no I meant because he wasn't scottish, and therefore he wasn't a scott :). It's possible that I lose twice. I really fail at spelling.

I totally get what you mean about Wolverine. I mean, I like the guy, but it's "X-Men," not "Wolverine and friends." He's a good character, but he's not the most fascinating person on the planet. And he's a good character because he *isn't* perfect. You start sticking people in there who don't have any serious impediments to their character, it messes everything up.

I mean really-- Xavier is handicapped and occasionally too 'father knows best'ish; Scott's colorblind and occasionally gets his head stuck up his ass; Storm's claustrophobic and occasionaly underestimates her importance/strength; Jean has a tendency to go crazy; Wolverine's a bit irresponsible and can be easily incapacitated by their main villian; Nightcrawler underestimates his own strength and can be kind of a scaredy-cat; Beast is socially awkward because of his appearance; Iceman's unreliable... We love them all *because* they're flawed.

(I think that's my problem with Emma. Her flaw is what, exactly? That she's angsty about being shuned by the rich social elite that hasn't really shuned her? I mean she's got that nice snark factor going, but she's like Mara Jade-- good as a villian or a semi-villian; bad as the hero's girlfriend).
wiliqueen
Jun. 2nd, 2006 09:21 am (UTC)
no I meant because he wasn't scottish, and therefore he wasn't a scott :). It's possible that I lose twice.

Ah! Got it. And you don't lose -- just means you were right the first time! -- but yeah, a Scottish person is a Scot. An American guy with the name is a Scott. :-)

:: dies laughing at the rundown of X-Men character flaws :: Yup, that pretty much covers it.

I think that's my problem with Emma. Her flaw is what, exactly?

Well, having checked out not long after Inferno, I would consider her flaw to be "power-hungry psychobitch." But I know from friends who are still reading (not a few of whom started after I quit, which really leads to some interesting perspective comparisons!) that's really not so much the case anymore.

she's like Mara Jade-- good as a villian or a semi-villian; bad as the hero's girlfriend).

*chuckle* Not a comparison I would have thought of, but yeah. Although I still liked Mara as the hero's girlfriend; it was as his wife that they ruined her, mostly through a near-total snarkectomy. The snark was what Luke needed (errr... from another Jedi. Who wasn't related to him. Uh, he just needed more snark than he was getting from Leia and Han. Or something.)

Scott needs snark for much the same reason, but he gets plenty from, oh, say, Logan. I just can't see him sleeping with it, as Emma *shudder* or anyone else.
leeflower
Jun. 2nd, 2006 10:04 am (UTC)
yeah, I'll give you Jade as Luke's girlfriend... but what the heck happened to her when they got married? Their poor child-- no wonder he's becoming a space pirate.

Luke's also a lot more chill than Scott, so he can handle that sort of sarcasm (he'd better, after all this time with Han and Leia). Scott? nuh-uh. Scott needs someone around to tell him what a good job he's doing. You know, like Jean.
wiliqueen
Jun. 2nd, 2006 10:22 am (UTC)
Well, I gave up on the NJO before Ben was even conceived, largely in disgust over what they had done with Mara. So I can't speak to what's becoming of him, but I'm just as glad not to know. :-/

And yeah, Scott won't believe he's doing a good job without someone telling him. Much the same was true of Luke, at least for quite a while, but he had no shortage of cheerleaders. Plus, Mara actually was a cheerleader in her way, just a snarky one. "The decision you're angsting about was perfectly fine, Skywalker. How about paying some attention to this one that actually might become a problem?"
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 06:04 pm (UTC)
And now Joss Whedon has her sleeping with my boyscout...

Ack. I had managed to block out that I heard that. :-( I know her place in things has changed DRASTICALLY since I gave up on comics in general...gosh, over a decade ago now. But still, that's just...ack.

He gets so much hate from the fanboys, but really-- someone's gotta be the responsible one.

Word. He hasn't always been perfect at it, but he does his best.

Then again, I'm assuming these are the same fanboys whose yardstick of character perfection is Wolvie. Which, y'know, 'nuff said. :-/ Not that I don't love the runt, but you'd at least think they'd appreciate his having a foil...
wiliqueen
Jun. 1st, 2006 03:29 pm (UTC)
Whoops, hit post too soon...
I've always preferred the "Cyclops throwing himself into his work" reaction to Jean's death myself...

I agree -- it certainly tracks with who he's been throughout the movies -- but that's without the factor of her calling him. As I saw someone put it in a comment on nique's journal, when your presumed-dead fiancée was a telepath, you can be excused for thinking maybe her voice in your head isn't all in your head.
nique
Jun. 1st, 2006 02:05 pm (UTC)
I did notice she was rather short this time around... so I'm not surprised to see the actress is only that tall. You have to be pretty short for me to actually notice.
fuzzyspacekitty
Jun. 2nd, 2006 06:50 pm (UTC)
Hee!
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